You Cannot Buy Reliability Without Doing The Groundwork - With Dan Bridges

Breakdown culture is expensive, exhausting, and strangely normal in a lot of factories. We wanted a straight-talking conversation about what actually shifts the dial, so we sat down with Dan Bridges to trace his reliability journey through soft drinks manufacturing and the hard lessons that come with it. If you’ve ever watched a team do “regimented” maintenance only to see the same faults return, you’ll recognise the trap: activity without value, OEM checklists without context, and a blanket approach that never goes deep enough. 

We dig into how reliability leaders win senior leadership support by changing the language from engineering detail to outcomes like uptime, trend improvement, reduced overtime, and the true cost of firefighting. We also talk about culture on the shop floor: why being visible matters, why authenticity builds trust faster than a polished persona, and how choosing your battles keeps progress moving when resources are tight. Along the way, we tackle the reality of headcount reductions, contractor dependency, and what it takes to retain site knowledge and engineer motivation. 

Training and development get a proper rethink too. We explore why rigid qualifications and exam pressure can miss the point, and why targeted courses, mentoring, and understanding learning styles can build stronger engineers sooner. Tools like DISC profiling come up as a practical way to communicate better across different personality types, especially when a team’s energy levels and decision styles vary. 

We finish by challenging the predictive maintenance hype: wireless sensors, Industry 4.0 marketing, and AI promises do not create reliability on their own. Without criticality, CMMS discipline, and defect elimination, you just collect data nobody has time to use. If you found this useful, subscribe, share it with a reliability mate, and leave us a review. What part of your maintenance strategy needs the biggest reset?

Transcript

Welcome And Why Reliability Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everybody, welcome back to another special episode of the Reliability Gang podcast. I've got a very special guest with me this afternoon, Mr. Dan Bridges. Hello, how you doing? How are we keeping, buddy? I'm alright, mate. Good to see you. Yeah, it is actually a while since we've actually caught up together. Too long. We've uh we've had our little kind of not annual but kind of quarterly get together, talking about services, what we're doing, and all the rest of it. And I thought, do you know what? Me and Dan, whenever we get together, we probably talk about everything other than other than what we what we should be doing, and we kind of check the time and be like, oh crap, I've got to be able to go, I need to be able to do whatever. But we always have some really great conversations about reliability. It's been a pleasure working with you over the last two years now, I think it is. Uh yeah, it is now. Yeah, two years. I've learned a lot from Dan. He's got he's very passionate. Like, I have, I have, I have. And do you know what? I think for me it was really refreshing to come somewhere where it's a bit like, right, okay, we're gonna do some CN, but have you got the framework and the basis? And like, yeah, I've done my criticalities, I know exactly what you want to do. Well, here's your list, here's what I want to do. This is what and I was like, wow, you know what I mean? Because how many places we go, and it's just you've got this big blanket approach and stuff like that. Just cover it all. Yeah, cover it all, and then just you know, don't go in really deep.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

But it it was um it was very easy to do when I first started it because I had so much time to do it. So it was like, right, come in. I know the kit anyway, because I'm from Soft Drinks, so we saw soft drinks, it's the same age of equipment I've always been used to. So the criticality was was dead simple. Um and then what then built out of that was well, I need to do this, this, and this, and I need somebody to come and do it. So I hadn't had the opportunity to get you or Will anywhere I'd been before, so it was perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

And it aligned beautifully, didn't it, when we came in and done it. What

Dan’s Journey Into Reliability

SPEAKER_00 1:50

got you kind of first involved with reliability? You know, tell us a bit about yourself and your journey, Dan, of where you've come from. Because first bit of reliability. Um chose to do it, you kind of fell into it, is that right? Or was it kind of like uh was it a career choice, or was it something that you just kind of end up falling into?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

It was so I've been in soft drinks now for nearly 20 years. The first big soft drinks factor that I worked in was in Kent, Silver Spring Soft Drinks, and that had a massive engineering function. It it was it was called internally uh an engineering company that just happens to make soft drinks. There was that many engineers, yeah, yeah, welders, fabricators, and everything like that, and that was all very regimented, monthly, three-monthly, six-monthly, yearly inspections. You've got all of these engineers going around at the weekend with grease guns and stuff, taking things apart and putting it back together again, and getting absolutely no value out of it. Like none. It would still fail the exact same way the following week as it did do, you know, the week before. Um, so that's where it that's where the soft drinks part come from, and where I kind of understood what engineering was. And then I went to AG Bar in Milton Keynes, and that was the first insight into actually how reliability should work and how you should look after your kit. It's not about following the manuals and doing exactly what we do. Don't do exactly what the OEM says. Show me why it's wrong, show me why it needs this doing to it. So that and when we were there, it was like the entire solar system would align because it was myself, my two good friends, uh Lee Pringle and James Rowlands, and we worked together, we'd known each other from Silver Spring, but now we were in this environment where Lee drove us and he drove us in the direction of reliability, and we just we knew where we had to sit in our little hierarchy. A little trio, yeah, nice. Um we was called the Trinity.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

There you go, then we were called the Trinity.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

And and that was the eye-opener as we worked through the Amos assessment, and we went from bad to world class in three years.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Wow, that's incredible. Um you actually see this, you see the change. Yeah. You see it from the start of actually doing it and then actually seeing the results of that. So I mean wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Saw it, it was driven. We were very fortunate to have a factory manager that understood where we needed to get to, and there was just buy-in from everywhere. So it was us in Milton Keynes, and then we also pulled in uh the two Scottish factories as well. So then there's all three Age Bar plants striving for Amos world class. That's incredible. So we had the whole group in on it, it was great. So then that's that's where it all been out from.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

So that's kind of like the first kind of journey where you've actually, you know, got stripes, really. Do you know what I mean? Because I think a lot of people can do reliability courses, but until you actually go into a place and you actually make the change, it's really difficult to see how it can actually have an impact. How important is it that you get? Because obviously, again, I mean, incredible journey, right?

Winning Senior Leadership Buy In

SPEAKER_00 5:00

You know, one to three years to be able to go from where you were to world class. Obviously, that's not the same journey as most places take. What does it take to get senior leadership on board? Do you know what I mean? And say, for example, you know, you you as an AG Bar, say, you know, give it a little bit of a you know role play, and you didn't have and maybe the Trinity knew what to do, right? The Trinity were there, they had the tools and you had the right mindset. But say, for example, your engineer manager or the guy at the top didn't understand that or didn't want to go with it, does that actually stop the whole program entirely? Or is there ways you can get around it to convince them to do it?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Um AEG Bar was one of the kind one of the companies where you could do what you wanted in effect. It was very freedom. Yeah, yeah. There was there was a lot of freedom. But during during the process, it was understood at board level that actually this is a really, really important thing to do, and it will drive the performance, and as you say multiple times, it brings your bottom end up, so it's an absolute no-brainer. Yeah. But it's it's getting across the the value of what concentrating on this stuff does.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Do you have to speak a different language to the board? Because they don't necessarily understand the engineering practices. Uh no, they definitely don't understand the engineering practice. Is it all money that you have to speak to on the return on investment? Is that the way that that's the way they they they they understand it, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? So I think that's another thing that we've at maintain, we've had to have a bit of a different communication style change because you know us, we're engineers, right? You know, we we love talking about engineering and and all the all the all the technology and all the great stuff it can do. But now we're starting to have a different level of the conversation with some directors and stuff. So now we're having to really understand how well how do we actually do a return on investment study? How do we actually map out to them to say, look, these are the things that are going to cost you now, but this is the unlocked potential that you have? And I think with reliability, the unlocked potential is millions. It's it's such a multiplier, right? And I think sometimes it's so hard for companies to see the short-term pain to be able to get over some of the stuff that needs to be done to get to the higher level of where we're at. How do we communicate with them people? Do you know what I mean? If you haven't got that language, if you if if the if there's a big blockade between the two, I feel like sometimes it's like, is this ever going to change here? Because we're speaking to some customers where engineer managers want to do it. They were like you, they were like the Trinity. They're like, Yeah, we we we know what we need to do, but Will, I can't I can't do it because I need to be able to do they need to learn how to communicate better with the people above them.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

So, what what I've learned over the last two and a half years, now I'm in the head of ops role here, is how important it is to try to pull everybody into it from the shop floor. Yeah. If you need to be able to get the shop floor motivated and involved first, and then once that for me anyway, once that ground is kind of broken and you've got more people involved and they want to achieve it, then it just kind of naturally filters up because then you can start saying at the at the SLTs and your quarterlies and six months and stuff that actually we're we're doing this and it's going really well, and you can see this in the in the trends of the lines, they're running better, less breakdowns, less money to spend on breakdowns, less headache as well, and less, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

The guys want to be sitting there at what

Culture, Trust And Being Yourself

SPEAKER_00 8:30

four o'clock and there's a breakdown, do they? Because that can be so demoralised and kind of you know, they have to stay late, you know, then the company has to pay more money for overtime, and the cost overheads can be just so big with that. But I think I've definitely seen here is that, you know, everyone that you talk to has a very high respect for you, and the way that you talk to people is very friendly. Do you know what I mean? And it seems like you've got a great team, the great culture here. How do you build that? You know, say for example, you were going into a plan where you didn't know anyone, how do you start to build a really good culture where people are aligned with it when they don't necessarily get what you're doing? Is it an overtime thing? Do you have to kind of, you know, make friends with people or just try to get and see the value? Because again, when I come here, it's a really good energy, do you know what I mean? And it's not like that everywhere, Dan. I'm not gonna lie. You know, you go some places and you feel it, you know, all right, I don't know even though I can talk in it or not, what do I do?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

What do I go? You know, it's just about building human relationships and making sure that you're not portraying yourself as something that you're not. Okay, so it's that honesty of I think people see through that all day long. So the my employer before here, I I called myself Daniel, not Dan. I've never been Daniel. It's only my. And it's horrible. It's only my mum that calls me Daniel. Yeah, I know, unless you'd be naughty when I think but I've try I try to portray this version of me that's like it's a little bit more professional. Exactly, a bit more professional and kind of holier than thou, and it it doesn't build that rapport. Um being where I was before, because I didn't know the plant and the kit, it allowed me to do the criticality and to do the really in-depth work on the CMMS and put all the systems in place and things like that, but it didn't allow me to actually really drag everyone into it. So what I learned when I left there was you just got to be yourself, first and foremost, just be yourself, and then you can push, but it's very, very difficult in a company that that doesn't have a lot of resource, yeah. Incredibly, incredibly difficult. So what I've also learnt here is it's about choosing your battles, yeah, not just going absolutely gung-ho for everything, but just slowly building.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, you have to, I suppose, because I think you've been in roles as well before where they probably have had the resource or they've had the spend, they've had the money. And I think every company wants to go on the journey, right? Everybody wants to be able to improve the output of whatever it is, what reliability brings, but every company has a different roadmap, you know, and and a bit like AG Bar, you know, from naught to three years, that probably took quite a lot of investment, right? Massive. Probably a huge amount of money. Massive, you know, and you've got people also have to put their hands in their pocket before they see the results. Yeah, you know, and that can be really difficult to do sometimes, especially, you know, even in my business now, sometimes, like when we first started coming into a bit of money, it was oh great, we need to buy some tools. You know, we buy new facom spans. Well, what value does a facom span bring? You know, we've got these nice new facom bads, okay, it might look nice on site, but the reality was with it, it was a case of you know, you're always having to question what you're doing and what the outcome is. And even if you're having a small business like ours, you've got to look after the pennies because if you don't quite quickly you find out that you're you're you're not ahead of it. So I think as well, what is really difficult for some companies to do, especially where you've got resource dependency and you're really difficult to be able to find the right.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

But not but not just in terms of cash resource, it's like people resource, people resource and time, and the pay having the paper resource gives you the time.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah, that's it. How do you get around that though? Because I mean most of the sites that we go to are don't probably suffer from the same level of not having the people, but everyone's trying to restrict the number of people that work for them. Yeah. And they're trying to now, like, again, I don't want to diss myself because we're kind of contractors, right? So I don't want to say, I mean, we work very closely with people and we do develop good partnerships and we want to become an extension of your team. But what we see a lot of time now is sites trying to really minimize their workforce, then just trying to bring contractors here and there to be able to subsidise when they need it. Yeah. But sometimes you can't retain the skill, you can't retain the knowledge of the plant. Yeah, they're not there every single day. Do they care as much, mate? We do. I'm not saying we don't, we definitely do, but not I'm saying everybody does because you know, when you've got that little family around you, they you want to do, they want to do the best they can for you, do they? How do we counteract to that? Is that something that we have to say into the industry as a return on investment, or is

Headcount Cuts And Engineer Motivation

SPEAKER_00 13:00

it just going to keep getting worse and worse and worse, you know, in terms of headcount, you know?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Uh that's a hard question. The headcount piece across the board, and not just within the engineering functions, but across the you know, the entire factory factory. The entire factory that's running, everybody's trying to take cost out, and the easiest way to take the cost out is to take the heads out. Head count, yeah. It's what a lot of people do it, isn't it? But you have to you have to retain as much of the knowledge on site as possible to be able to maintain any kind of output because otherwise you can't get the output if you haven't got the you know the knowledge skills that are there. Yeah, I know. In terms of engineering and being able to recruit engineers and retain engineers, I've I've been told since 1996 that there's a shortage of engineers. You're gonna get paid more money, there's gonna be less and less, you're gonna get paid more and more and more and more and more and more. And f for me and what I've seen, I haven't seen a difficulty in one hiring an engineer, or two, retaining them. I've not I've You're a good manager there, I'm not sure. I personally haven't. Yeah, interesting. And uh where it comes back to that human piece and building teams and rapport and being able to talk to other people, it's the human approach again in terms of trying to get an engineer.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah. I suppose as well, I think for even engineers as well, if they can feel a part of something, you know, because I w I go to a lot of places as well, and I'd say a high percentage of places, a lot of engineers are quite frustrated and a little bit, you know. And I I think it's time over time this happening. I don't think everybody is just, oh, I don't want to be here. I think it happens over time when it they gradually, you know, maybe, maybe they are a little bit, oh, I've found the problem, you know, can we do something about it? And it kind of gets ignored. You know, oh I've I've done this, and maybe they have tried to extend themselves a little bit and then they don't really feel like their recommendations have any value. I think over a certain period of time they just get to this place where they're a little bit, you know, frustrated and then they're like, well, I'm not gonna bother anyway, and then then you end up just you know kind of doing the menial stuff every single day without really pushing the boundary. Yeah. But I suppose again, I think, like you said, if you have got that human approach and you are listening and you are genuinely caring about your team and people, I don't think that is possible to be like that eventually. Do you know what I mean? No, you know, because you you you generally care about what people have got to say and you know, and all the rest of it. So I think for me, I think that's a really valid point. But I mean, I'll be honest, like the percentage is higher in terms of frustrated engineers than it is guys that are really proactive. Do you know what I mean? Do you think that is down to that human element and being that manager does care? Or do you think that's down to maybe just big organizations don't have the ability to be able to have that human connection with people?

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Oh, there's a lot of that. There's definitely a lot of that human face, but there's also from what I've experienced over the years, is the the level of effort and the level of care and the will to go and do stuff has kind of ebbed away slowly, slowly, slowly over time. You can see their soul just being dragging, you know. And you have to try to cajole them into, well, actually, look, we've got this problem and we've had this amount of time to do it, so let's go and make a plan and so we can actually go and attack it. Yeah. Because my approach here, and basically everywhere has been on the shop floor like 50% of the time, minimum. So I'm out with it that much, I can see the problems, and it will come on, let's go and have a look at this. Or, well, why haven't you seen that? You're doing the route every day, you should be seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I think that's as well though. I think that's important though, innit? And I think this is why I see you run around like choo choo choo choo everywhere. But you know, you see the value in doing that because you know, a lot of managers as well, they probably won't go out on the shop floor a huge amount of time, you know what I mean? But I think every time I've been here, you've been out on the shop floor. Do you know what I mean? Because you are out there showing people or whatever, or you know, helping people, and I think that's so intrinsically important as a leader to be the person that is actually doing the work and out there doing it. Because I think people will follow by that example opposed to just telling what someone to do from an office point of view. And it it's difficult though, because it it can burn you out at the same time because there's that element of wanting to help people, but there's always there's always a negative for that in terms of you know just your mental space, really.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

It is draining, as you found out this week.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

I know, yeah, exactly. And we had a bit of an incident, we had uh, you know, Harry unfortunately broke his hand, bless him, and we had a very important job, and it was a bit like I have to come do that job now. Do you know what I mean? It was in Yeoville, it was quite a way away, and you know, there was quite a few you know jobs getting done and completed today, which is amazing, but I had to be there because it was such an important job. But I had a six-hour drive back yesterday. Yeah, I don't like to drive back because today we had a meeting today with you, and it was so important that we did this. You know, I wasn't gonna cancel it again from being busy. Do you know what I mean? I had a meeting this morning as well, which is a really important one. It's just like I had to do, you just have to do, do you know what I mean? You have to do it, you just have to do it, yeah. And it's it's hard though as well, because you know, you try to explain to your missus and your kids while you're away, and you know, and they don't want you to be away, but then it's really weird because I don't know about you, and I think you're probably the same as me. You've got this thing that you just love and you're just drawn to it, and it's almost insanity because you know that you know, when you do it, overly do it, you get burnt out, you make it the people you love maybe a little bit unhappy, but it's just something about it. Yes. I don't really know what that is. If I'm on it, it's obviously passion. Passion. But obviously, there's something there that's pulling us towards it, and I generally think there's so many people in reliability that have that, you know, have that thing, they can't really put the finger on why. Do you know what I mean? It's just the one

Training Engineers For Real Work

SPEAKER_00 19:00

thing they love to be able to do is to help the company get through the hard times and get them through it. Do you know what I mean? Do we need more engineers like that?

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

That's I don't think we've got I think there is a lack of engineers, I do, but I think there's more of a lack of that passion. There's more of that lack of wanting to be able to do more without really explaining why. There's more of that, and you know, for us, we do the podcast and stuff like this. It's great to get you on here, show you as well to everyone, and and get your passion out there and all the rest of it. But how do we start to really inspire this younger generation of engineers that come in through? Because I'll be honest, Dan, we ain't doing enough, mate. Oh, you look at schools, you look at really what's going on in schools and stuff, and the curriculum hasn't changed a massive amount. You know, I see what my my son's doing and stuff. There's no real engineering, even from an early level, is there? Do you know what I mean? Really, in terms of what it is. Okay, there's some science and bits and bobs, but people really don't really see engineering until at least they get to college ages, and then after that, you go to college, then you're just learning how to fix things. There's no reliability. There's like I I come across this when I was like 24. It's like, how many years could I have been ahead of the game? You know what I mean? And then I had to build a business in it. Then I really learned, I was like, oh my god, this is what it's about, you know what I mean? So, like, there clearly is at entry level, there's not enough being done, isn't it, mate?

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Uh I've I I I think it comes from parents and schools and uh colleges and universities, their need to give a person a certificate that says, yeah, you can go and do that. That that's what you're qualified at, you can go and do that. Well, I'm absolutely of the opinion of you don't actually need that bit of paper. I know, yeah, because we can just do targeted uh courses to bring your skill levels up in either the bits that you're really interested in and just push for that, which is where your passion comes from, or the bits where you think that you're weak. And it and it takes uh engineering managers and hiring managers and all these other people in in the big companies and stuff, that when they take these young lads and young girls on, instead of saying, right, you're gonna go and do three, four, five years, and you're gonna get this certificate at the end of it, well, why don't we come and get you on the job, you work with the most experienced person that we've got on shift, they'll mould you, you'll learn from them, and then we can pick and choose as to what courses you want to do after that. Oh, yeah. I think the whole approach of degrees and HNCs and all that, it's just so regimented. It is regimented out. And it's not regimented out there.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

It's not, it's like almost they're preparing us for something that's not reality when we actually get into the work and working life, is it? You know, and it's so true in it. You know, you go to school, and you've got uh even at school, it's like, oh, what grades are you gonna get? And the pressure put on people with exams. I remember Will Crane was teaching some VA level one for a for a site, they did some private courses, and There's a couple of the students that were so nervous with the exam. Whether that was going to pass or play out. And you know, for me, I've never really had that with exams. I've been always been quite good. But I can I I've, you know, one of our lads, Tom Up North, he's a great engineer. And he can do he can do vibration. I've seen him, I've seen him do it. But when it comes to doing the exam, just so he's got a piece of paper to say it, the exams he hates it, he gets very flustered and whatever. And I think there's this pressure that we've got in society to be able to say, yes, I am this, I'm level two, I'm level three, and we we you know we've got these these labels that essentially don't actually represent how we do the job. Do you know what I mean? And I I do I do agree with you, mate. I do think that needs to change. Because until we change that narrative, it's always going to be the same. We're always going to keep experiencing the same problem. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

So I've got uh young eng young engineer Ally. He went to college and he did um level three, I think it was, mechanical engineering, and he couldn't get a job afterwards. So he ended up working in the process plant here. Um, and then I took him out of process and brought him into engineering, and over the course of the last three years we've done exactly what I've said. Do you want to go and do college work? Or for me personally, I said to Allie, I think we should put individual courses in what you want to do and build you up that way. He's phenomenal, he's a great engineer.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

That's a great idea, by the way. You know, just like picking out the things as well, because I think every company falls into the trap of doing it the conventional way, because that's kind of always where it's been done. But even with us as well, now we've started to not do that exactly the way that you've said it, but with you know, there's quite wide condition monitors, lots of different, you know, services that we offer from you know, vibration, from thermal imaging, from ultrasound, so now motor current signature analysis, new technologies. But what you'll find is that certain people will really like a certain subject. Yeah. And they'll be like, Oh, I really like this. I really and you'll you'll see little signs of it when they use the equipment or whatever, and they'll be like, Oh, Will, I really enjoyed that, or I really enjoyed the survey. Again, another one OGI surveys, we've got a guy that really loves finding leaks and leak detection because he sees the value when he finds it, and and I think it's not even the process of it. I think what he loves is the reaction from the customer when he finds something. Do you know what I mean? So he's very goals-driven in that way, and you know, the vibration could be a little bit more subjective, right? You have to test the asset, then you have to do the analysis, and then you have to then say, right, this is what it is. Whereas when you see it instant, like thermal imaging, you see, okay, 120 degrees in the panel on the contact, you know, ah, it's brilliant, I found it. It's a little bit more instant. But I've got guys that are very different in that way, where some really like the instant kind of results. That's where the thermal imaging and and the OGI comes in really handy, right? Because you can visually see the leak or or or the defect, with vibrations a little bit analytical, and I've got some analytical guys that love the problem solving. They they get really like into the, you know, yeah, look at they're like solving the puzzle. You see him getting really into it. Like Will Crane,

Learning Styles And DISC Profiling

SPEAKER_00 25:00

you know, shout out to Will. He's really like that. He really loves just diving in, and sometimes you like solving the problem so much. He doesn't even get to the outcome, like, right, Will, what's the outcome, mate? We need to, you know, great, you found the problem, mate, but we need to, you know, put in the report and you know, meeting him being part opposite, you know. You you you say that when you meet other Will. Yeah, he does. You say that is how he works. Very calculated, his brain works in binary, it's that's kind of the running joke. But what what I love about that is that we have, you know, even 10 people at main team, and you obviously manage a lot more people than that, but each and every single one has a different character and a different way of learning. And some guys, you know, really love to read a manual, like Will loves to read a manual, because that's how he was taught, you know. But then I've got Brandon, for example, we've got these new meta glasses, and I did some SOPs with the OGI camera, and he loved it. He said, Will I uh that one video has given me I don't know exactly how to use it, and I was like, what a great idea. So now what we're doing is like being quite clever in the sense that we need to use different techniques to communicate with different people. Absolutely. So but you've got to know them first, in your dad. Like you said with the human bar.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Uh there's a there's a range of well, I'm sure there's lots of lots of ways to do it, but there's a a range of questions that you can ask people at interview stage to find out how they learn.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Because then you you you can you can score it to understand what they're learning about.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

So, what questions would you ask them to be able to understand that? I would have to go and get the little book. Yeah, there's there's a proper process to that. Yeah, yeah. Have you heard of disc profiling? Uh yes. It's very similar to uh, and again, that's something that hugely opened my eyes. Because I don't I I thought generally people, because I'm quite excitable, right? And I could probably tell you're quite similar to me in terms of the profiling with being maybe quite a high eye. Do you know what I mean? You would probably, you know, profile very similarly, I can see it. But I'm really excitable. And what really frustrates me is when I've got a great idea and someone's like, yeah, it's quite cool. I'm like, What? What do you mean it's cool? Why are you not excited about why are you not excited? And and you know, I I I noticed that, and and I thought, is he being funny with me? Or is he do you know what I mean? But then when I started to understand profiling, someone who's like who's who's on the opposite end of that spectrum, who's a high C, who likes all the data, they don't get excited in the same way. No, they don't. So it's like I started to realise, oh no, it's not, it's not it doesn't like me or hates me, it's just who he is. And when you start to realise that, your conversation style with everyone really changes because it opens your eyes up to a perception that it's not you that's always the problem, it's just you're different in the way that you communicate. Yeah, and and I think to be to be like managing anyone, you really need to understand who you're dealing with, don't you? Do you know what I mean? And sometimes I forget that okay, I'm speaking to a slightly different profile when that and I have to remind myself to sometimes slow down a little bit and maybe not be so excitable because they're not going to be able to mirror that energy. Do you do the same with your guys? Do you have a bit of an idea of kind of like where they are at and how to get the best out of it? I suppose it's more difficult when you've got more people to go off.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Not not in not to the the level of depth of doing a disc profile, but just being able to understand what feedback they're giving you. Yeah, and how they respond the drawing. Oh, yeah, no, I shouldn't have said that.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, crowd, there's a there's a bit of a deadly silence.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Why haven't they done it? Well, but uh didn't actually say what they needed to hear to be able to go and do it.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

100%, mate. Moving on to kind of predictive technologies and stuff like that. Obviously,

Predictive Tech, AI And Defect Elimination

SPEAKER_00 28:40

we've done some vibration analysis here and you understand the value of it. You've obviously seen it in previous companies. How does that add value to you as well? And also, where do you see the future going with predictive technologies? And also, why is it how is it valuable when if you haven't done the reliability stuff? Because here you've done a lot of the pre-work that allowed enabled it to be valuable.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, you have you you have to you've you've said it loads of times, there's lots of people out there that have said exactly the same thing. You have to do the groundwork first, it's utterly pointless just going out there and throwing a tensor on every single asset, every single motor, we're gonna do VA on this every single month, and we're gonna get a team in, and they're gonna do it every day. Really? Who's gonna sit there and go through all of that data? They're not. So when you talk about predictive technology and there was a whole raft of industry 4.0 and do you think that was a bit of a fad, though? Oh, industry 4.0. I think it was digital twins. It was a marketing scheme, was it not? Come on, all you're doing is selling the wireless vibration sensor with no value.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

I know. I just feel like that 4.0 wave that we had was such a market employ, wasn't it? Absolutely. You've got a wireless sensor, but then it's like it's this wireless thing that I think humans have this weird connection with, oh, it's got no wireless. It's wireless, must be good. It's it's good, it's got no, oh, I've got wireless headphones. I've got wireless earbuds.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

I mean, I can see the value in them, but like, you know, it's But the the the predictive part of it, I think, will only ever be uh very widespread when all of the data is pulled much more than it is now. And it's cheaper. So the so the it's gonna be a mod a large language model, isn't it, that sits underneath all of this data anyway, that can then learn provided that all the information is fed into it. That's that's that that asset and it's doing that task, and that one's doing that task, and so then it learns then. Um I think it's probably gonna be an incredibly long way away from actually your average factory like us being able to say, yep, we're gonna do predictive now, because we can't. Yeah, it's just we're not there yet, are we? It's not there yet. I mean, there are there are there are there are companies now that are embedding it into their machinery, but it's at the the price point of it's only ever gonna be, you know, your top footsy companies that can actually afford to buy that kit to be able to do it. Yeah, and also a long time to fill it out.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

These companies are already getting the value out of the the you know the technology and and and you know the the the value out of the vibration anyway. How much extra value does it get when you're already at the top of the tree? Do you know what I mean? Like, is it really going to so is this whole AI revolution where all the machines are learning, you know, when your failure rates are down anyway and your OE is absolutely smashed because you've done the defect elimination? Yeah, like and this is another thing I think a lot of people are going down a bit of a rabbit hole. We want to focus on understanding when a machine's gonna fail, but where's the money in actually eliminating the defects so they don't even fail in the first place? Yep. Do you do you know what I mean? So we're like, oh my god, we're gonna have this complete AI model when everything's gonna be under it, it's gonna see all the process stuff and it's gonna it's like, well, why don't we just eliminate it? I think And everyone's looking around and say, well, that doesn't make any money though, does it, Will?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

I think the I think the I think the fundamental driver for that within business currently is to be able to remove as much of the workforce as possible off the factory floor. Um China, loads of cobots doing jobs that ordinarily a pu a human would do, especially in this kind of industry. I mean we see it now all the time. Dark factories, the only way that's ever going to work 100% is with that level of AI underneath it.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah. That's it, that's where the value comes with AI model. But you you're right. I mean, I was in Germany last week, actually, and you know, you know, the the self-kind of pallet palletisers, and obviously all of these were driven before. The site's just gone over a huge renovation, and it's like, I mean, the factory of tomorrow, you know, you've got all of these palletizers where that generally could probably be about 30, 40 people driving these these trucks. Yeah, AGVs, LGVs. And I think we are, you know, we are heading towards that revolution, aren't we, a little bit, where we are seeing technology actually replace these people, aren't we? Do you know what I mean? How quick do you think it is until it really has an impact? Or we already there yet?

SPEAKER_01 33:16

In in Europe, uh, probably easily a decade away. Before easily a day, I would say easily a decade away before we get to the level that China are at now. Yeah, because they they're well ahead, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 33:27

How many years do you think they're ahead? Ten years. Do you think they're a decade ahead? Easily. Yeah, that's mad, isn't it? They have to be. That's crazy. I mean, look how cheap they're manufacturing cars for now. Yep. And they're good as well. You know, they used to be really. You know, they used to be really crap, didn't they? But now you know you're walking in them and you're like, oh my god. You know what car I've got.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah. B Y D. Hate it. I've got a chance to look.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Do you not like it then? Oh no. I think it looks quite nice, or is it like not as No, it's not for me. It's not your dream, Dan. It's not my cuff of two.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

No.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Oh Dan, I've

Final Thoughts And Goodbye

SPEAKER_00 34:10

got to say, what a great conversation it's been, mate. Um, appreciate you jumping on. I do think there's a part two involved in this, if I'm honest. Um, do you know what I mean? So I will be here over the next few months as well. So I'm sure that we can get Dan on to talk of more pressing subjects. But honestly, mate, I really appreciate you coming on. Any last words for guys on the podcast? No, just thank you. Yeah, just thank you. Cheers, buddy. I appreciate it. Take care, guys. We'll catch you on the next.