Reliability Gang Podcast
Welcome the #Reliabilitygang Podcast! I would like to welcome you all to my reliability journey. I am passionate about reliability and I want to share as much as I can with everyone with my experiences. Stories are powerful and my aim of this outlet is to gather as many insights and experiences and share them with the world. Thanks for joining the #reliabilitygang.
Reliability Gang Podcast
HIDDEN ELECTRICAL TRUTHS, MCA AND MCSA - MARK GURNEY
Ever wondered how a “high-efficiency” motor can start wasting energy and damaging bearings before it’s even been switched on?
We did too. So we tested it.
Using offline motor circuit analysis alongside online motor current signature analysis, we inspected brand-new IE4 motors still sitting in their crates. What we found changed the conversation completely. Critical impedance imbalance straight out of the box. One motor already showing early winding defects before it ever saw load.
That’s the moment labels stop mattering and evidence takes over.
This episode walks through why pairing de-energised and energised testing matters.
Offline MCA tells us what’s happening in the windings – contamination, resistive imbalance, insulation condition. Online MCSA, sampled at 44 kHz with serious resolution, shows us what vibration often can’t: rotor bar issues, air-gap problems, electrical harmonics, inverter-driven bearing currents.
In difficult environments – noisy plants, submersible pumps, generators, limited access assets – current signature analysis often gives cleaner, more repeatable insight than vibration alone. We’re seeing faults that used to hide in the noise.
And this isn’t theory. Across 750+ motors tested in the field, we see a clear link between impedance imbalance and winding health:
• <5% – normal
• 5–8% – defect initiation
• 8–15% – accelerated damage
• >15% – critical
That gives teams something powerful: defensible alarm limits and a simple acceptance test that stops bad assets entering the plant.
There’s a practical win too. On one motor we reduced resistive imbalance from over 30% down to around 3.8% just by cleaning and correctly torquing the terminations. Test. Fix. Retest. Immediate improvement.
The real gains come when sites take this seriously:
Acceptance testing written into purchase orders.
Evidence required from the factory.
Faults confirmed using at least two technologies.
That’s how you reduce energy loss, prevent shaft currents from destroying bearings, and turn condition monitoring into real reliability improvements – not reports that sit on a shelf.
If uptime matters.
If energy efficiency matters.
If you want better decisions with less noise and less drama.
This episode shows the path: measure what matters, set your own standards, verify the fix, and keep learning.
Enjoy the episode.
If it helps you rethink your motor strategy, subscribe, share it with a teammate, and drop a quick review with your biggest testing win or surprise.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Reliability Gang podcast and it is part two time. We have a special guest again.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well Hello Mark, how are we keeping? Yeah, thanks very much. And yeah, we're back in the studio. So thanks very much for the invite, uh Will.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, it's been probably the most exciting week again. I I honestly get giddy when you come down because we're just doing all sorts of tests. You know, we're jumping into electrical tests, and this time it's not just been MCA, it's been motocurrent signature analysis as well. So we've got like machines when they're off, we're doing tests there, we're understanding what that means with the day, and then we're looking at machines when they're running again, and we've just got this whole new wave of information this week, and my head is honestly just yeah, and being able to do the tests both uh running and offline, it just tells you so much more about what's happening under your motor, and it's it it uncovers some pretty good energy efficiency gains. So, but I I this is the thing for me as well, because you know, at maintain reliability, everyone knows we bang on about it all the time. Strategy, get the data, understand what it means, and it is so important, and I think we all do know the importance of it. But again, I think some of the things that we're gonna talk about within this podcast, with words, like how much data you've taken and how many tests that you've done, and and really basing lots of facts. And one thing in reliability that's so important, and and you'll know as well, if you haven't got the information, it's difficult to do the statistical data that that tells you what the future's gonna be and how you're gonna be able to implement it. And it's the same with like customers' CMMS systems. If they don't have that data, how can they extrapolate it and be able to make use of the value of it? Yeah, but I mean that's the thing, Mark, in it. We live in a world today where we need there's lots of data sources coming in, but sometimes it's not aimed at the right purpose or value, and this is the problem. We need data, but we need meaningful data, don't we?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and yeah, and data that you can actually trust. Yeah, um, because you know, it's the quality of the data. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and that's the thing with with what we've been doing this week, and it's just been such fun. We've had a ball. What we've done, obviously, we've invested in the all test pro, um, incredible piece of equipment, and also the M power as well. So obviously, Mark's used these devices and had so much data again, and we're gonna get into kind of a little bit of a case study that Mark's done with the all test pro, which is which is incredible. But learning both sides and the importance of why electrical condition monitoring and condition-based maintenance is important, but not even just to do it as a CM function or CBM function, it's to do it to improve the reliability of your plant and and yeah, and all the rest of it as well, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I've been testing motors since 97. Wow, yeah, and um yeah, I was 10 when you started. Yeah, but I got a bit of grey hair. Yeah, so um the offline testing with motor circuit um analysis um has been around for a quite a long time, and it's I've only really started with MPOW, which is the um motor current signature analysis since uh beginning of this year. And that I mean that technology's been around for quite some time, but it's not until it's been made very usable.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I agree. And um it has you learned about like motor current signature analysis in like courses and stuff, but it's always like a tiny little section on it, and that was it, and you didn't hit anything.
SPEAKER_00:Going back decades ago, I had a current clamp on a on a VA analyzer and we say had a go at doing that current signature analysis, and it you know, it's hard work to get it to get meaningful data out of it. So um it wasn't until uh Motodoc um came out with MPA earlier this year that it has a on-board AI model for uh doing the analysis for motocurrents signature analysis.
SPEAKER_02:And I think this is the evolution because what I've seen in terms of the software, like I'm quite hard to impress, to be honest, because I've been around the block. But I'll be honest, with with the way that's laid out, I mean, shout out to Howard Penrose. What what an incredible thing he's created here. But I think what's more impressive is like you said, it's getting we've got a signal there through through the electrical signal, but how are we extrapolating it to have valuable information to what we need? So, you know, it's great to have all the information on defects, but it's also what's really impressive is to understand the energy efficiency side of the motor and how quickly it can identify that is just phenomenal.
SPEAKER_00:And I think this is a game changer if I'm if I'm being honest. If you've got a uh pretty good laptop, um yeah, you can take the data and then you hit the auto-analyse, and you you get uh a instant findings within probably 30 seconds. That's just incredible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it's um yeah, it's a game changer. But again, I think this is the thing that people also need to understand. In order for it to do that, how much research, how much development, how much knowledge goes into a model like that, yeah, is is this is where you have to take your hats off to someone like Howard in terms of putting basically his whole life finders into this one kind of product, really, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's developing very quickly. I mean the the difference really is is that it has an incredibly high sample rate. Yeah. 44 kilohertz. It's just and and during that 120-second data capture, you're it's at about 5.2 million lines of resolution. It's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02:So to be able to have both of them, all every all of my vibration analysis followers and people that watch that can now have probably have their jaws on the floor because they'll probably understand how quick they're sampling at in terms of vibration spectra. But to be able to have that much resolution with that frequency um, you know, range is just it's unfathomable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and the and the issue is is that um you know the best VA analyzers, you know, 16,000 lines of resolution or what are you looking at 16 to 32 on your and and um you know it's it's which is still very high res, by the way. You know, you can still find it. The issue is is that M power is at at least 10 times that, and you need that resolution to be able to see some of the electrical faults that you see in electric motors, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and that's the that's the trouble, because obviously for a long time we've seen electrical frequencies in Spectra and vibration, but it hasn't had the ability to be able to do what MCSA is doing right now, to be able to really look even deeper into the causes of that electrical kind of response. Because a lot of the time, when it comes to electrical, you'll you'll ask any vibration analyst, you know, they can under they can identify it is, yeah, but that's about as far as it goes. That's right. It's like it's finding you know, you might be able to see it's the rotor, or you might be able to see some vertebra frequencies, but what actually is causing it, and more importantly, is it damaging or not?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and also sometimes it sometimes it's not, yeah. Like, you know, we we I was with Will um yeah, on a client site uh yesterday and and and a few days before that, and I mean we we put the um M power on um at the board at the bottom of the uh drive, just around a single cla clamp of single face. And um yeah, I said, yeah, it's got a bit of cage loss there, and uh yeah, your lubrication looks like you've it's been decayed. So it's not just electrical issues. Yeah, yeah, of course. We can see all the all the bearing issues. Um yeah, if we put the fan bearings in, we could do exactly the same.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's that's that's blowing my head a little bit. I I need to do and again, I said to Mark, I said to Mark, I need to do my own tests. I need to do my own, and boy, you you're not gonna you're gonna see me now. I'll tell you now how much data and I told this story to Mark actually, he laughed as well, because when I first started the business, um we used to use SKF and um I bought it was proof technically actually the first because at the time it's the only thing I could afford, really, whatever. And I just remember because it was new, I was like, right, I need to test. And I was on site probably till like seven o'clock in the evenings. The missus' like, when you're coming home, what you doing? I'm like, I'm just taking data, I'm messing with filters, and um I I kind of I got that that feeling back again with this. Do you know what I mean? Like it's it's got me really like don't get me wrong, you know me, I'm passionate about what I do, I love what I do, but um it I've never felt this excited for something within the business for a long time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean I think it is very much a game changer, yeah. I think so. I think that's why I'm excited as well, to be fair. Yeah, and it and it's an extra sort of uh string in the bow, you know, it's not going to take over from VA. No, of course, but it's a great assessment. But it's very much going to complement and give you a different angle. And I always say to clients, if you need to confirm a defect with at least a couple of technologies. Yeah. If you're relying on one technology, you can often make a mistake. 100%.
SPEAKER_02:And I think that's also us that maintain we haven't just done vibration, we have your ultrasound, we do, you know, all analysis and all these, you know, even when you get an all sample on the gearbox and you put that with the vibration, just how much clearer is the pitch in terms of what decision the customer makes. And we've got to also make sure that we get as much data as possible to make the best informed decision. Yeah. Because maintenance at times, Mark, it's not easy. You know, you've got limited downtime, got limited availability. You know, I might get a bit of a shutdown window. You want to be really sure about what things you're changing before you do them actions. And I think this, as well, electrically, allows us to be able to find a lot of root causes of problems that people are completely unaware of because they're hidden. Yeah. You know, the hidden electrical truths, isn't it? You know, about some of the things that we're finding. And um, that kind of brings us on to our next kind of conversation, which I'm really quite excited about because when we spoke about beta, we spoke about how important it is to capture it and meaningful information. And and it within the world we live in now with AI and and the way it can kind of crunch statistical numbers, we are in a really interesting time because you know, me and Will have spoke about kind of the the involvement of AI and the involvement of how it kind of makes our life easy as maintenance professionals. But with we said one of the main things you need is a really good, valuable, reliable data, yeah, but you also need a lot of it. You can't model off small amounts of things. So obviously, the capturing of information is really important. So Mark's been telling me about the 750 motors that he's been testing. How much is did I get that right?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I we use the all tests to um take um offline data. Yeah, this is the MCA. And it it holds uh 500 tests, um, allows me at any one time, and then we download into software and we do off-sier analysis, and but the beauty of that is I can export it, and this year so far, I've probably done well in counting the ones this week, probably about seven seventy, something like that, motors. But I exported seven hundred and fifty-five motors into a spreadsheet. I've then fed that data into Deep Seek AI, and I've asked it to do what we call cluster analysis and correlations between all the different tests that the all tests do. And it's incredible, yeah. The results were like quite quite. And I've taken a little bit of a a few notes here.
SPEAKER_02:If people want to read this, I've I've linked the actual article in below in the description, and obviously it's like a it's a little case study like blog uh basically how the tests were done in every bit more detail. But um, yeah, make sure you check it out as we did in a bit more detail as well.
SPEAKER_00:It's a blog article on my on my website. We'll link it below as well, so have a little look at that. So um the all test does a couple of winding tests, so you can actually um predict um degradation of motor winding issues. Um, and those tests we correlated with uh impedance and balance. And an and an impedance and balance is effectively you know the the resistance to uh current flow in each of the three phases. So that correlation, if it if people know a little bit about stats, an R.82, which is the correlation between the winding defects and impedance and balance, that's really strong.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's interesting as well, because it's quite important as well. The thing is, when we test for a winding, there's lots of tests we do, and there's lots of different failure modes for a winding. Okay, this is also really important, guys, where we just don't rely on insulation resistance because it's telling us this much of the story. Do you know what I mean? And what we're doing. So when Mark's going through your statistics, this is why it's important to be able to put a couple of them together and see what the relationship is with percentages of motors that are going through the same problems.
SPEAKER_00:So we've we've taken a large population of motors, um, and what we're finding is that under normal conditions, good quality motor, that impedance imbalance on average is uh less than five percent.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so we've got a bit of an alarm kind of status level now in terms of uh of real-time data, and this is also really honourable because we can't just rely on manufacturers' alarm levels. That's right. Or people. We have to do our own data, and I've done the same with vibration, but you can only do that when you've modelled a lot of it. Yeah, because you can't have the confidence to change everything until you've done that.
SPEAKER_00:So this data being a large population, it absolutely matches the alarm levels that are preset in the instrument. Yeah. So I've actually used real-life data to prove to prove that the instrument's about right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because that's it's the same, like even in vibration. Like, remember, we've only got ISOs for velocity. Yeah. Like for acceleration and envelope acceleration, different devices will calculate that overall value differently. So we've got to be able to use our own information on what is good and what is bad. And then make them them alarm levels from that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the issue is that not many motors are are down under 5%. And and when the that cluster analysis, um, there was a thing called uh coupling initiation, yeah, which is uh the stats are s sh telling me that there's a small correlation there. And what that means is that an early winding defects happen between five and eight percent impedance imbalance. Okay. But once the impedance imbalance is much higher, and I'm talking like the next level was eight to fifteen percent, yeah, that's what they call accelerated degradation.
SPEAKER_02:So kind of when you it's a bit like when you get into the area, the the wear rate will increase dramatically.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And then there's a critical coupling, and that's above 15%.
SPEAKER_02:So anything above 15. So when you're talking 15, you're talking, right, this could potentially fail.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's the actual impedance imbalance is not the failure mode, yeah. But it's so tightly correlated to the actual winding defect. The winding value, yeah. Okay, cool. Because uh, you know, when you think it through, an impedance imbalance means it's like a wheel out of balance on a car. Yeah, it's gonna stress the tire wear, the the suspension, and it's gonna use more energy. Okay. That's exactly what's happening in the motor.
SPEAKER_02:So it's kind of like the the cause-fitted winding defects. So it's so we can have poor impedance balance from the get-go, can't we? From manufacturing.
SPEAKER_00:And you've yeah, and and it can be related to a number of variables, and that is the rotor quality, yeah. Uh, can be air gap, and it also can be a defect in the winding. Yeah. So there's multiple um failing modes, yeah. Yeah. Causes. But overall, if you correlate impedance and balance with winding defects, it's such an important one. I mean, you can't argue. Uh, an R.82 is an incredibly strong correlation. It is very strong, yeah. So very related in that data. We'll we were with one of Will's clients over the last few days, and um they um had have got a few new motors.
SPEAKER_02:So let me explain the story in context because I can't name any names or anything, but it's quite ironic this story. And this is what we do at Reliability Gang. We don't like there's so many stories behind plans, and it's so interesting because they're so and it's also so valid to why we do tests and what we do. You know, it's confirmation of why we do what we do. But um, you know, customer that we've said this week, they've got something called like a carbon fund. So the idea of the carbon fund is like a bit of a rebate when you spend with your supplier, they they have a rebate to get put back to spend back for energy efficiencies, which I actually think is really good. Yeah, the premise of it is a great idea, right? So, what was done, they had two main fans that they run, quite big fans, very critical assets. And they also thought, well, do you know what? If we can get a new motor as well, you know, great, we extend the life of it and all the rest of the things. And it's had some inverter issues with the bearings. Yes, it has. They know that as well, because we've found the problems using VA, and we've also tested and we've confirmed that there's 100% issues coming from the inverter, and there's EDM damage happening. So obviously, when it was done, these are supposed to be IEE4 motors. Okay, so they were the replacement, yeah. They were the replacements. That was the idea. The new IE4s go in, they're more efficient, therefore saving more money just to find the carbon fund. So, kind of done this, and do you know what? We were there this week and we were doing some tests with the all test pro. Yeah. All right, teaching me how to use it. Because I've got my own now and I'm looking all snazzy with my bag, but still need to learn how to use it and get some tests. So we was like, Well, perfect opportunity to do a bit of training. We've got two new mowers. Can we test these? Mm-hmm. Perfect, because they're out easy. So when we test them, Mark, what did we find?
SPEAKER_00:Well, the first one um it had uh about 15% impedance and balance. Go into Mike's list. So we're gonna look at that in the so that's that's right on that critical cup list. That's on the critical mark already, isn't it? Yeah, crazy. Um but then the second one we tested was eight. 19% right and it's already got an early winding defect in it. What the hell?
SPEAKER_02:So the so the context of this, these are brand new monitors. They were still in the crate. They were in the cellophane, basically. Um and this is alarming. And this I was shocked personally. I to be honest, we only tested them for training. So the fact we found defects at the rate they were, and you know, obviously spoke to the customer and obviously not happy with it, and they should they shouldn't be. And but this also identifies why acceptance testing is so important. And we don't in the industry, we don't do this, we just don't do it, and then we should do it, you know. And you know, Mark's on the mission as well to be able to create some new standards with customers because it's not difficult to create a good standard when we understand what we need to make sure is actually a good quality motor, you know, and and more importantly, obviously a lot of these checks, probably from manufacturer, probably are not being done, or even worse, they are being done, and said now, anyway. We've got to be able to say, Well, what is the testing criteria? And um, we've got to understand what it means to have a good quality motor because there's lots of different things that can go wrong. It's not just a simple asset, is it?
SPEAKER_00:You know, yeah. So um to give you a little bit of a background, I I actually went to a motor manufacturer and did an acceptance test for a client. We'd written into the purchase order the requirements, and I went there and we got a motor that was less than six percent impedance balance. Impedance balance, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a little bit of rotor showing there, but it was generally a really, really good motor. So that's down, you know, in that normal, acceptable range. Yeah. Um but the two motors that we tested this week completely out are are are way I mean 18%.
SPEAKER_02:They're being critical alarm, aren't they, really, in terms of what uh of what that impedance balance means. And and that also means the fact they're supposed to be efficient, they're not gonna run efficiently because the magnetic feel basically there is imbalanced. So that's gonna cause a lot of different height of current scenarios and cause havoc for the moment. So we don't want them defects into our plant. We want to eliminate that. What we need to make sure is at brand new, when we're spending that type of money, that what that asset is gonna be as good as it can be before it starts running. And the thing is as well, it's very difficult to be able to test for that if you're only doing insulation resistance tests, you're not doing enough to understand the quality of that winding. This is why the all test pro is really important for our strategy as well, because it's also understanding all the other failure modes that we're not testing for that are hidden and they then become problems later on.
SPEAKER_00:And I've got to add also is in the IEEE standard, it states that any break in magnetic symmetry in a motor, in other words, impedance imbalance, rotor defect, or whatever it is, yeah, this creates shaft current. And that as a and then you end up with a circulating current and this is going to destroy your bearing. So when you buy a motor which has these problems, yeah, you're never ever gonna completely fix the problem.
SPEAKER_02:You're you're the detrimenting your reliability. Yeah. And generally, if your most critical assets, then you're gonna maybe damage the bearing. Then you're gonna damage, and and the knock-on-effect from it is, and that's the thing with electrical that people don't understand, it's the knock-on-effect damage that the further it goes down the line, the more damaging and expensive is to a business. Yeah, so if we can capture that element at the get-go and we can avoid these things coming into our plan by simply writing out a standard that we have deemed acceptable for these motors to come in to be able to operate, and you know, when we're spending 40 grand on a mower, we expect it to be able to live a long life and we expect it to be able to do its service for the critical asset that it is. Yeah, so why are we not writing these standards? And and and we all have the right to write a standard of our purchasing terms. Yeah, every business does. You just need to know the metrics that mean it is a good mower. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:And people got to realise that there's quite a high variability in impedance imbalance. Yeah, 100%. And the problem is it's not in any IC standard, but the thing is it's so highly correlated to winding defects. Well, we've seen it in the data.
SPEAKER_02:We've got proof of this. So this is also another really important metric, and you know, I understand it can be difficult to get your head around in terms of it not actually being a failure mode, more of a cause of failure, but we have to look at the data that correlates them winding failures that a high percentage of them happen because of the impedance and balances that take place. And that there's the data that we have to extrapolate and have a look at the article to see and understand what it means because it is probably one of the tests that is gonna let you know whether your motor is fit for service to begin with. You know what I mean? You know, it's not again, we could find motors with faults already, but we need to have a look at the main cause of them faults and see how that mower has been manufactured to avoid that from happening. That needs to happen at the manufacturing process. Once that's happened, you can't go back, you can't improve that number. The mower is the mower's impedance imbalance, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I mean this is backed by like thousands and thousands of tests. I mean, I I honestly I think for myself, uh three-fire reliability, we're the only people out there doing like hundreds and hundreds of tests on these motors every year, and then using that data to actually make decisions.
SPEAKER_02:We're gonna share data. So, you know, I'm gonna now test a load of this stuff, and this is gonna go into Mark's database to it refine these models, and you know, it's that's what it's about now, isn't it? It's about trying to be able to use this information to keep learning. Yeah, and you know, we've got we've got other test results as well, and we've got other test equipment. So, what I'm gonna do now is also test between the test equipment and see what correlations we can get. Because I think that's very important uh to know what we're missing here.
SPEAKER_00:The issue there is that you know the data doesn't lie, and if you don't have data, you've only got an opinion. You just got assumption, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And we can't assume when we're talking about such critical assets, you know, we've got to be able to be informed. And and and again, it goes back to the saying we're drowning information because uh we get some information's crap. We need the right information based on what we're looking for as failure mode, but then we need to use that information to be able to make better decisions, yeah. But we also have to back up the data we've taken to verify decision making. That's right. So when you loop them three things together, what you get is value decisions based off real information. And where we live right now in this industry, we have too much information that's poor. We don't have enough data that is valuable. That's right. And that's what we've got to do. We've got to make sure we're collecting the right information. And what does that information mean? And then when we've got that historian, we've got that back up, we verify our results through all of the data that we get, then that reinforces the data again. It's kind of how AM AI models work, really, if you think about it. Yeah. So, you know, we've got we've got to do more work on that front, and you know, we've we've had a great, great week this week with just you know, getting involved with not just MOA circuit analysis, but current signature analysis as well when the machine's running. So these are two tests that we're doing right now. One obviously needs to be an isolated MOA, we need to do unenergized, and MOA current signature analysis is done when it's energized. Yeah, yeah. Mark, just quickly briefly explain to the viewers kind of like why we need to do both and why it's important that we don't miss one.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Um doing de-energised testing, um, this tells you a lot more about the um winding um condition, um, contamination. Um, you know, like we we just pulled a motor apart in your workshop. Yeah, we did, we did some tests. Um unfortunately it's full of oil. Yeah. The winding test or the contamination test, the dissipation factor, uh, yeah, was elevated. Yeah, yeah. You may not be able to tell without the contamination. And the other one is that it's very, very good at picking up resistive imbalances. Yes. Now, I did some tests on the motor at the at the client, and uh we found a massive resistive imbalance. Like it was huge, wasn't it? 30 something percent.
SPEAKER_02:That's massive.
SPEAKER_00:We've opened the lid on the motor, and there's an extension bar on one phase. Yeah. So we've cleaned it all up and um and put it back together, and we retested back at the board, and that resistive imbalance is now down to I think 3.8%.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, so so so just to just to clarify on that, 27% of that resistive imbalance was down to the fact we had dirty contacts. And bad connections. Bad connections as well. Yeah, yeah. So high resistance connections and just and this is also why it's so important because within the training marks done this week, and again, most companies don't do this either, it's just torque wrenching up your motor terminals. Yeah. Because three of them, when we try to take them off, we could barely take them off. Oh, yeah. They were so over tightened. Yeah, I mean, the the over tighteners can be bad as well in this.
SPEAKER_00:It it stretches a thread. Yeah. Um, and um, so the motor current um sorry, the motor circuit analysis is very good at picking up those types of balances. Resistive balances. Now the online testing with the um motor current signature analysis, it's an equivalent of doing a VA on a motor, obviously while it's running, by taking high resolution current. And you can pick up things like air gap problems, um, rotor issues, but not only just those electrical issues, but also the bearings, gearbox, fans, pumps, so just to give you an example where this use case could be really valuable, and this is what we're gonna add to our strategy as well.
SPEAKER_02:Um, we do a lot of engines and alternators and generators. Obviously, depending on what engine is driving that, they're very noisy. And and within vibration, it's always been a bit of a struggle. We can use filtering, and we've done it successfully, but it's a challenge, you know, to be able to do what you need. You need to know what you're doing and what you're looking at. And as well, you need to have some really good mechanical transmission paths to the bearing because if you don't put that sensor in the right particular place, you're gonna pick up, you know, harmonic indices from other areas from other sources, which is quite common uh for for that for that signal to transfer. So, what we can do with motocurrent signature analysis is is clean the signal, right? Yeah, and we can use the electrical signal to understand the bearing defects as well, which can be more effective.
SPEAKER_00:Well, inherently sorry, you don't clean the signal, but you inherently get a cleaner spectra. Spectra, yeah. You don't tend to get these big humps and resonance issues.
SPEAKER_02:The noise flaws start to reduce massively.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So um it's it's very similar to VA, but with some nice changes.
SPEAKER_02:We use we we're using the motor current and what when we're using FFTs on the motor current, aren't we, over over high sample rates to be able to give us a very similar way of of understanding spectral analysis with frequency so we can pick out the the certain folds. We're not just looking at a time wave, we're looking at you know certain frequencies, but it's very good for picking up you know rotor bar issues and electrical problems as well, you know, it's really crystal clear for them.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, and the other side of that it it's extremely good at doing harmonic analysis. Yes, and you showed the harmonic stuff was really good, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and what we call supra harmonics, yeah. This this is um um it it takes harmonic analysis out to 22 kHz. Yeah so what that the beauty of that is it gives you at least two or three, sometimes four times or of orders of switching frequency. Yeah. So when you do that analysis, you can tell if you've got a bearing current type issue from the inverter. Wow, incredible. And and it and the latest version of it obviously has the alarm limits and the warning limits for those bearing currents. So it's extremely easy to do the analysis.
SPEAKER_02:And and that's the thing as well, the ease of use with it is very good. You know, you only need to clamp onto one phase, um, and it's very innovative in the way that it actually outputs this results. Another really good use case for it is where VA is difficult in terms of access. We've got a customer of some submersible pumps, and we're able to use this technology to be able to, you know, as we would with just with vibration analysis to check it mechanically if the machine's okay, which which would be really challenging for a vibration analysis scenario. So again, it doesn't replace our vibration analysis. We do 80% of our business models VA, we do lots of it, you know, it's kind of how we've grown, but as we're growing, we're gradually adding these techniques to one another, especially on the critical assets, and it's given us so much more insight to be able to make better decision making. That that's the that's the thing we've got to do. Remember, anyone can analyse and monitor data long term, and and a lot of the data models, if you're sampling at the right frequencies, are very similar. That's not where the value is with vibration analysis, the value is in the decision making of what you need to do. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:So because you don't fix or improve reliability by detecting. You don't. You you need to actually got to do some physical work.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you can't just say, Oh well, it's it's gonna break and do nothing. You have to take action, and that action needs to be informed, then it also needs to be in a reliability-centred way as well to be able to improve the process moving further down the line, and that's what we can also do out of this data. You know, if we understand it is shaft current and it is EDM, well, let's improve the the drive, you know. So sorry, you got that battery's just exhausted.
SPEAKER_01:Fine, what I'll charge you to be fair, no way.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we're pretty close, anyway.
SPEAKER_01:Five minutes, yeah. Fine, wrap up.
SPEAKER_02:So, yes, so important for us to be able to use that information and data and be able to actually, you know, make something of it and make it valuable, you know, moving forward. So, you know, I just gotta say, Mark, just uh huge shout out again to you this week. It's been absolute ball. I've had so much fun, I've learned so much, and you know, we've now invested in the equipment and you know, we're working together now, aren't we, to change reliability.
SPEAKER_00:And it's a pleasure to come and work, and um yeah, you you just get such a good feeling when when you when you impart some skills to different people and uh especially electricians that are that are used to swinging so tight on uh motor terminations, but I mean you go, wait, wait, wait, you just done it way too tight.
SPEAKER_02:But but then that's the awareness as well that we all appreciate because you know, even all the electricians this week highly respect you now from that. And now you can tell there's a level of respect there of you know what I can do my job a little bit better now, just by having a bit of awareness with with some of the things that are not so obvious, uh, and these little things as well. Now they're they're thinking a little bit differently, and that's culture change, and yeah, and and that's what we need to do in this industry. It's very refreshing for us to see these customers, and that's what gives us enjoyment, right? Yeah, yeah. That's what that's what we do.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's that's part of me. I I'd I'd much rather uh impart skills, of course, than than yeah, it's it's it's what's what's gotta happen in industry.
SPEAKER_02:It is, and and you know, we work this relationship's only gonna get bigger. We're already looking at other customers we can help together, and um we need to do it together because you know it's a big task. There's so much to do. So, you know, we we're now on the on our journey for it, and um, yeah, thanks Mark for coming this week. And then we'll be a part three because when he comes next time, what will we have? We'll have more data. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and this is what it's about, isn't it? As we start to build it, we'll have more data.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, the next step is to integrate both uh MPower, the uh the motor current signature analysis, and with the offline and be able to do more AI analysis with the both technologies. That's going to be awesomely powerful.
SPEAKER_02:This space that's gonna be powerful. So, guys, thank you so much for tuning in. Really appreciate your patience. We've we've not hit a podcast in a while because we've been so busy, but what one to come back with the the legend himself, Mark Gurney. So, thank you, Mike. Thanks very much. Take care, guys, have a great time.
